There are a number of proof marks. Bertrand Antoine Brancquaert Louis The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). (copy right L.R. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. this location now so you can return often. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Any idea how to date it? Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. this book online and pay it through Paypal. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. These firearms << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Colleye Henri Joseph Baron Emile rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Collette Lopold Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Any info will help. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. listed in alphabetical order. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? This will be an on going 1870-1898. By Alain Daubresse. Collings Hadelin Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Members . Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Very long barrel. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Charlier Ch. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Bernard Victor & Cie It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. JavaScript is disabled. Baltus - Wilmotte Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Due to the Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Christophe Henri that we have found on this subject. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. location, rather than a manufacturer. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Do you have any information on them? Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. Order this book online and pay it through Anyone else know? There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. stream Braekers Charles & Cie Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Key Findings. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Sorry! Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium).
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